ellid | A good, Christian, homeschooling mother

Now, now. She specifically said she wasn't calling for vigilantism.

Domestic terrorism, on the other hand...

::vomits::

Wow. Now I feel kind of nauseous. I....yeah. Good Christian my foot.

I looked through the comments and the only arguments she answered were ones that could quote scripture right back at her. Didn't change her mind any but at least there was some dialogue.

Don't crawl under a rock; that let's people like this get away with it. We have to be more steadfast in our support of our friends with various sexual orientations and call people like this on their unacceptable behaviour.

What a sickening creature.

Horrid. And the comments literally brought me to tears. This woman genuinely believes that being gay puts you beyond salvation. How can she read and claim to believe the New Testament and hold such beliefs?

For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor might, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)

I guess she'd rewrite it, adding 'unless you're gay, in which case, you're screwed' to the end. She may call herself a Christian, but I can call myself the Queen of England, and it doesn't make it true in either case.

Things like this make me want to take your rock and crack open the skull of that disgusting sample of human... at least it would open it to more than one idea.

I feel seriously sorry for the poor kids who'll never get the chance to escape her poisonous influence.

Yep. And the fact that even according to the Bible, Jesus didn't say one single word about sexual preferences, doesn't seem to have penetrated her tiny brain.

This type of person is one reason why I'm way against homeschooling. It can be done well and for good reason, but most of the time it's just a way for parents to brainwash their kids.

Please to remember that bigots and closed-minded fools come from every background (I believe that homosexual behavior is punished severely in Muslim nations?) and that this woman a) does NOT speak for all Christians, and b) has obviously missed the point of Christianity - Jesus commanded Peter (et seq) to "love one other as I have loved you". So why not let's put HER under the rock instead of you, k?

I would point out, in support of my homeschooling friends, that they believe equally fervently that the *public* schools are brainwashing children in the opposite direction. Yes, homeschooling can be done poorly - and there are pagan homeschoolers, and Orthodox Jewish homeschoolers, as well as Christian homeschoolers. But many of these parents have invested their whole selves into educating their children. The children I know who are homeschooled are VERY well educated indeed. I'd need to see lots of research to determine which is the 'can be' and which is the 'most of the time'. I've found that many folks have a knee-jerk opposition to homeschooling, the same way that some so-called Christians have knee-jerk negative reactions to their gay brothers and sisters. It's "different" and that seems to make folks suspicious.

Just sayin'.

I knew someone in high school who was homeschooled for the first half of her education. She learned the facts etc. yes, but she missed out on the whole socialization part - to her stated regret, even at the time. I've also, as a college prof, taught homeschooled kids; and again, their academic abilities may (sometimes, not always by any means) be excellent, but their ability to interact with their peers is generally lacking.

Anecdotal evidence, yes, but I'm not just having a complete knee-jerk reaction here. There is a lot more to schooling than just the book learning part, and in a country whose political structure is based on democracy and an understanding of others of all different sorts, I think homeschooling has to be VERY carefully done... and I further think it's the aspiring homeschoolers who ought to have to prove they're doing a reasonable job of both socializing their kids and also not teaching them lies.

Some of the comments are even more objectionable than the original post. I am so gobsmacked by this that I can't think of an adequate response. *gibbers*

Hopefully at least one will turn out to be gay and will openly defy her. And hopefully the rest will defy her too.

Now, now, it's in Leviticus...and then you point out that so is "no bacon and shrimp" and then they tell you that no, Jesus got rid of THOSE laws but kept the ones about morality. Then you ask about that and they guide you to one line in Paul that can be interpreted a million different ways, but really just looks like a lame attempt to sell Christianity to non-Jews who weren't going to be caught dead getting circumsized or giving up pork.

Yeah, I've done this round...a lot...

Yeah, I see your point. It does get a bad rap. But I gotta side with celandineb here...I'm trying hard to get past the knee-jerk reaction, and I still don't think it's a good option. The anecdotal evidence I see also shows some seriously poorly adjusted and socialized children.

And some day those kids will have to go out in the real world. And they will meet up with all sorts of opinions, views, and lifestyles they don't agree with. And have to live with them. Does keeping them in some rarified home atmosphere really teach them to cope with that?

And you here from time to time about states that want to make sure homeschooled kids are learning the basics...reading, math, etc., and the homeschoolers get all up in arms. Don't like that myself, either. Our schools do a bad enough job educating kids...they don't need help from homeschoolers to raise a generation of kids with no basic skills.

You mean the comments on the link, right, not on this LJ entry?

Dear Merlin yes!

Yes, Jesus did say that, and I know not all Christians are intolerant. I'd like to know why more liberal Christians don't put up more of a stand against the fringe element. It's really giving them a bad name.

LOL! I'm with you there...except I got too sickened to keep reading all of them!

She's turned on moderation and deleted the post. I copied and saved it from cache. I'll be posting it in my own LJ with a helpful link.

Loving that icon! LOL!

Thanks--I didn't get a chance to read it the first time....

Please do - I wanted to make sure I hadn't dreamt it!

I'll make that post public.

It's up!

The comments link just gives the original blog entry at the moment. I've just been reading back through her blog and she certainly mixes some bizarrenesses with her recipes and parenting advice.

I have asked my homeschooling friends about socialization. I've had different answers from different people. One said that, as a former public school teacher, why would she *want* her children exposed to the meanness and nastiness that other public schoolchildren commit upon each other? There is plenty of time for that later, she said.

Other Moms I know address the matter differently, and make use of many 'communal' classes taught in common with other homeschooling families. That, along with sports, meet their children's needs to socialize adequately, in their opinions. I don't have the impression that these practices have been around for terribly long, though, so I wonder if the students you've seen did not make use of those resources - either by choice or because they were not available.

"Teaching them lies" is such a loaded topic among folks I know. There are those who firmly believe that creationism is a lie; likewise there are those who firmly believe that evolution is a lie. Each has evidence they cite to back up their beliefs, and reasons they don't agree with the opposing position. So it seems to me that it'd be exceedingly difficult to define "lies" in this regard.

Thank you for engaging in discussion with me! So many folks seem to want to sling mud at those who just want an open discussion. I sincerely appreciate the respect with which you are presenting your opinions and listening to mine.

I wonder if they ARE, but are not getting the press coverage that the loudmouths do. One could ask the same regarding the radical and liberal (or any two comparative adjectives you prefer) Muslims. I wonder also if the 'liberal' folks are just trying to live their beliefs rather than broadcast them? Hard to know. A reasonable question you pose, though!

I don't object to a parent teaching their child creationism - only to teaching it as if it were science, which it is absolutely not (and that's an example of what I mean by "teaching lies" - misrepresenting religion as science). Teaching creationism as part of religion is their choice, regardless of its veracity in a provable scientific sense. But since religion is not part of the public school curriculum, IMO that part of homeschooling ought not to count towards "educational hours," for instance.

Thank you. I've spent some time prowling open discussion boards on it and I've seen the same thing there...the non-extremeists don't speak up. Probably they just aren't on the religion boards! :)

But I wonder...are the mainstream pastors denouncing the extremist groups from the pulpit? Are they at all interested in making a stand, or do they just not care?

Hm, the socializing aspect may have been more lacking in the beginning than it seems to be nowadays. I know someone who homeschools her kids and also does small group classes and field trips with other parents' homeschooled kids. Academically they're all doing fine, too.

I also have one friend who pulled her kid out of school because she has some learning issues that were repeatedly not being addressed by her school, plus she was getting physically and psychologically bullied and abused.

Home schooling may not be the best answer for everyone, but neither is standardized education.

Haven't read it and don't think I want to now, based on what other folks here have said so far. How on earth did you come across this?

I have heard of these group approaches, and it does help address the socialization issue to a point, and probably some of the academic ones as well (I'd be hard pressed to teach higher math!). But I still think there are valuable lessons to be learned in having to interact with all sorts of people. I was a very introverted and socially awkward kid and I think having to sit in a room and participate in a very mixed group helped me a lot.

I'm not saying it's the worst idea ever, just that there are benefits and drawbacks in each choice. And of course there will always be people who, because of lack of available alternatives, need to home school due to their child's special needs. But that's not what we're talking about in religious home schooling.

Sorry, I was just talking about home schooling in general, not religious home schooling, which is why I only talked about the school aspects like some of the other folks who posted here.

As for religion, parents will teach that one way or another, whether kids are in regular schools or not. In a public school a child will _possibly_ have more exposure to other views, but as someone who went to public schools until 10th grade, I was never very impressed by that exposure as far as any impact it had on them -- all the cliques had their idea of the world and, except for the after-school art club, kids tended to stay with others of similar views and social status... 10th-12th I was in a private school because it was the only American school where I was living at the time. We had religion courses in my high school because it was founded by Northern Lutherans, but a) they were "religion" courses not "religion as science" courses and b) we had some cool choices in courses like the one on Existentialism, Biblical Ethics, etc.

Back to homeschooling in general, here in Massachusetts where the teachers are required to "teach to the test", I think any kid who goes to a regular public school should _also_ get homeschooled because they aren't learning long-term useful things -- they get facts but not reasons, information but not how to get it, nothing on critical thinking, etc.

It isn't the teachers' fault, and the exceptional ones can somehow manage to teach the kids all the required cr*p PLUS how to think for themselves, but it's getting pretty bad here. Hopefully it's better other places.

I believe it was linked on either Feministing or Feministe. Of course the Elephant's Child here couldn't resist clicking, and..

Jesus got rid of THOSE laws but kept the ones about morality.

Tecchnically, Jesus got rid of all old testament laws and replaced them with just two:

1) Love God
2) Love your neighbor as you love yourself.

They either always seem to forget that or they've never actually *read* their bible for content instead of reading for talking points.

Go ahead and help yourself. The creator's info is on my icon page.

I wish I'd seen this earlier but I was lazy with my flist. Now the page has vanished. Wonder if its a coincidence. =P

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The Last Homely Shack East of the Manhan

A good, Christian, homeschooling mother

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